2014-04-02 [Figgy]: Ermm, I think ancient and V should probably collaborate on the description to this room. Lots of conflict and also redundancy.

2014-04-02 [Vhnori Valmos]: Yeah, I just updated my post to state that she needed to update the room, lol. Basically its set up how it would have been 13 years ago when she was last living in the room.

2014-04-02 [Duredhel]: Considering the student turn-around, I seriously doubt the room would have been kept as it was for 10 years. Might be best to assume her stuff was put in boxes for her and safely stored. Boxes which are now in her new double room?

2014-04-02 [Vhnori Valmos]: *Sighs* Is it really too much to ask to at least get away with a little bit of leeway? Vhnori has been in seclusion for a long time so she needs somewhere familiar and unchanged in order to readjust to being around people again. Besides couldn't it be just as logical to assume that her room was never touched when she left due to the original Xman's respect for her? Xavier was the closest thing she had to a father and Storm was no different than her mother, so it makes sense that they would do everything in their power to leave her room and belongings alone.
Of course if that's a bit too much to ask I'll try and change it so its all different and force her to try and adjust even more I guess. If Im stepping out of place here for being so new, I apologize, I tend to speak my mind and thoughts even if its not my place to do so.

2014-04-02 [Figgy]: Uhm, I really don't have a preference whether or not you decide to have her stuff be kept there, but if we're going by what actually happened in the game, there was another character who lived in this particular room for a couple of years. I say it's up to you, though.

2014-04-02 [Vhnori Valmos]: Oh..I assumed it was always empty due to it being a nearly blank page when I showed up..I'll give it some thought and try to figure out what to do so I dont break any storyline related stuff or something.

2014-04-02 [Figgy]: Nah, if you go back and look at the first edition of the page (there are only 9 changes), then you'll see the description of the room when the other person lived there.

Like I said, I really don't care, since it's a minor plot point and doesn't really screw with anything now that said character is gone.

2014-04-02 [Vhnori Valmos]: Ah I see. Im guessing that previous person is no longer around or something?

2014-04-02 [Figgy]: Yeah, they left the RP a while ago.

If you consider out-of-story stuff, surely in 10 years there have also been other students in this room, but it's not documented.

2014-04-02 [Vhnori Valmos]: Yeah, I suppose you have a point. I can easily just change it so that the room is empty when she enters it. She can create her own furniture and whatnot so its not that big of a deal.

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: Reminder not to add or change powers randomly - Vhnori's profile doesn't say she can purify water.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Well techincally that would fall under being able to control water, purification would be a byproduct of that control, for example being able to remove particles from the water, the same as turning those particles to ice or vice versa. However if thats going too far, I apologize, I figured it was all part of the package. Also my profile doesnt say I can make a bed from ice, so I really dont know where I can go with my powers. If I was to write a full list of everything she could do with ice and water, that list would be quite long

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: It doesn't automatically fall under that, though. There's no need to list what things she can or cannot create - THAT falls under being able to control and manipulate ice and water. But purifying it is a totally different idea. It involves more complex manipulation of water (removing the water FROM the particles as opposed to freezing the molecules), and therefore more practice. Being 23 and having trained under Storm her whole life, I would say she can do it, but it still needs to be added to her profile.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: I see, I guess you do have a point of it being a bit more complex and probably takes a lot more energy to do, I just didnt think it needed to be specifically listed. I shall add that right now.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Am I to assume that the dorms have their own bathrooms too?

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Yeah I'll assume the dorms have bathrooms, sometimes one just has to improvise, lol

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: I have a standard dorm map somewhere, lemme find it.

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: Can they see each other through the ice?

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Right now the ice is opaque but if you want you can ask Vhnori and she can clear it up so is transparent. I probably should have mentioned that when I made it, lol

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: XD

2014-04-06 [Duredhel]: Erhm... :O, what happens to Vhnori's ice thingies when she goes to bed? or goes out? do they both wake up with a huge pool of water? Does her ice somehow never melt?

On that page... a 12 by 12 foot aquarium with 6 inch walls is about 24 to 30 cubic feet of ice (depending on whether it has a base or not). A cubic feet of ice contains about 7.5 gallons of water. That's 180 gallons of water.

Just to get this straight...

- Vhnori somehow found 180 gallons of water worth of water vapor just in their room.
- Managed to condense them without even breaking a sweat.
- And she will be able to keep them it from melting in a non-refrigerated (In fact, i imagine the mansion has central heating, to boot) room even when she leaves or is asleep?

Just saying... water vapor makes up, at most, 4% of air composition. And that's in tropical regions, in the summer. It's much lower up north and even lower in the winter, down to trace amounts. Let's be generous and assume there's 2% of water vapor in the mansion (its probably a LOT lower). Even while being generous, it would require at least 1200 cubic feet of space to manage to get 24 square feet of ice.

I mean... just to maintain the water frozen against the temperature in the mansion right now would would probably be a strain... REALLY not trying to be asshole or anything, I promise, cross my heart. I understand you want to make your character really cool and really powerful but all of this seriously needs to be toned down,

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: The tank could be a lot smaller and the walls thinner. The perimeter could probably be around the size of a twin-sized bed and Coral could still sleep and twist in it.

2014-04-06 [Duredhel]: The tank could be plexiglass and they could order it online. It'd be a lot less ridiculous and wouldn't melt or leak 45 mins after Vhnori leaves or goes to sleep.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Well I suck at math and didnt bother to add up all that boring stuff. Im starting to think it was a mistake coming to this RP to try and have some fun and get back into it, but it seems like everything I do is met with criticism and complaints in one form or another. I just cant seem to do anything right. I dont know what else I can do to make everyone happy, maybe im just not good at being realistic or something. At this point im ready to just give up and stop RPing altogether cause I can never seem to do anything right anymore. All im trying to do is have fun and just get the room set up. As for the ice melting, that isnt a problem since the ice is bonded together by its own molecules, so even if she dies whatever she makes remains in the world. But maybe thats too unrealistic too, I dont know

2014-04-06 [Duredhel]: It's not really about doing the math at all, its about thinking "Is this a bit over the top?"

For the GMs its a red flag when we see stuff like that, since the day we have Vhnori facing off against another player character (or NPC), we might end up with something equally ridiculous which may create a conflict with the other player.

We'd rather address stuff like this when its starting than halfway through a plot. At that point, one or another player walking out because of character over-the-topness can ruin the whole thing and leave a lot of people in the air, you know? Our tone can probably be nicer, both Figgs and I (but mainly me) have that problem. I really don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you or like an ass, I just have a hard time toning down, so I'm sorry if the way I phrased things was too aggressive.

My concern is what I just mentioned, if Vhnori can do this inside a room without so much as a minimal effort, what do I do when she freezes another player character with a flick of her hand and the other player can't do anything? The player will turn to us and go "Can she do that? :/"... and like... stuff like this is a precedent that says she can.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Well maybe its just me, but I dont feel like its going over the top, I just feel like im using her power to its fullest. Im not going to keep apologizing for the way I RP, maybe my way of thinking and doing things just isnt meant for this RP cause I really dont know what else I can do except make my character useless and boring. All im trying to do is make a character that can utilize my several years of RP experience, but maybe that experience isnt good enough for here. I really dont want to leave or be kicked out for being over the top, but im not really seeing much of an alternative.

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: Dude, c'mon. You came into this RP without knowing how anything was going - how do you expect to get everything right the first time?

I mean, have you ever started at a new job and knew how to do everything perfectly? There's a very slim chance that the answer is yes. You have to work at it and figure out how things operate. It's not gonna be like your old job, you know? But that doesn't mean you aren't cut out for it.

These little things happen with everybody. What makes the difference is those who are willing to listen and understand and those who get defensive over things and give up. It's the GM's job to make sure the RP runs fairly for everyone, and that's what we're doing. (The reason we provide explanations for what we request is so that all the players understand why we're making the request. It's nothing personal against anyone, just regulation of the roleplay.)

I know it seems like we're harassing you with this stuff, but we're not, promise. All the players have gone through this at some point before they knew how everything worked. Just try to bear with it and listen to requests with reason and you'll do fine, then later we'll probably leave you alone completely.

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: Btw, here's the basic layout of the rooms 8>

http://www.homestyler.com/designprofile/0fe2d658-27ae-4015-a7f9-c98bac8b4492

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Well forgive me for feeling a bit under appreciated and over criticized. I just dont know what else to do other than completely slim down and nerf Vhnori which would be sad because I worked hard on figuring out how her powers work. If I was to go purely on the math of how much water might be in the air and take into account the heat outside, central heating system and all that, she wont even be able to make a small ball of ice in her palm, much less a fancy ice aquarium for her new room mate and friend. So it sounds to me like shes practically useless.

2014-04-06 [Flisky]: I know I'm not a GM and you can ignore what I'm saying, but I will honestly say that Mihir (my fire boy) can only make a small fire ball in his hand. And Tory (one of my teachers) is completely useless in a fight. Addy is okay, but she has some mental disorder things to overcome. And Rook...oh Rook...he's the one who could actually destroy everyone but wouldn't. A powerful character does not mean interesting. Interesting could be a character who can only snap her limps but somehow proves useful (see Valerie). That's...just my own opinion.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Well I guess my biggest issue is just that I was trying to create a character that can match up to my years of RP experience and skill, I dont want a character that could be easily played by a 15 year old that has been Rping for only a week. Maybe my expectations are too high or something, but thats how I feel on the matter. I dont want to sound like im coming off as high and mighty, although most people would probably see it that way, I just want to be able to utilize the years of experience I have at my disposal. I mean, maybe I was just being childish in thinking I could properly use a character inspired by Elsa from Frozen, her power defies all logic I suppose so maybe its too much power for this RP. As Figgy said, im new and cant be expected to understand all the ins and outs of how things work.

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: ^^^ What Flisk said.

XD You act like you didn't read a single thing I just said.

Going to say it again. No one is trying to single you out or pick on you. Everyone has issues when they first start. It's just a matter of figuring stuff out, and that's what the GM's are here for. There's no reason to take Vhnori out - her powers are fine as they are written, but in use, they just need some limitation, which is why Dur commented in the first place.

Dur already said that there's no need to use math to decide what she can and cannot do. Just use reason and think about what is practical. We're not being realistic, we're being FAIR. If we were being realistic, no one would have powers and half the characters would be dead. Even the enemies that the GMs play have limitations, you know? Not being able to make a giant, thick wall of ice does not make Vhnori useless.

We have a page which we go by for developing powers - What not to do with powers, and this is literally the first sentence after the introduction:

"Less is More

The more powerful the character, the less interesting it is."

Look at the last edit date. 2010. We've been doing this a while, and you aren't the first person we've called out. Plenty of the seasoned RPers we have now, we have had to call out numerous times. Don't take things so personally and stop making yourself a victim. No one is telling you to leave or delete Vhnori - we're telling you how to make her better, but you're having a hard time listening I'm running out of ways to keep explaining this.

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: V, powerful characters work for movies because their intent is to be powerful and undefeatable, and there's no one hiding behind other characters who might feel cheated and hurt by their inability to do ANYTHING against the all-powerful character. Obviously, that's not the case in a roleplay. There HAVE to be limitations to make things fun for people.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: I understand that, thats why I stated I was probably being childish when I made Vhnori and her power. I guess at the time I was just wanting so badly to get back into RPing and instantly be powerful and useful and all that, so my judgement was clouded by a desire to be more than what is required of me. Im trying to think of a way to tone it down without slaughtering Vhnori, or kill my brain by thinking of how much math is required to figure out how much water she has available, lol.

2014-04-06 [Flisky]: This is going to sound much meaner than I mean it (sorry in advance) but years of experience mean you should be able to take a character that you deem 'useless' and make them useful. ^_^

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: Don't worry about math, ok? At all. If we all worried about math, nothing interesting would ever happen and we might as well all be accountants.

Just think about what's reasonable. If you have questions, you can PM me or Dur, and we'll be happy to help you out or help you decide.

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: Flisk is right :O If you go back and look at our posts 4 or 5 years ago when this thing got rebooted, you'll see that the quality was a LOT worse. But 5 years later, everyone here is actually a very good roleplayer, and none of our characters are overpowered.

I PROMISE you'll get the hang of it.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: No, you are right Flisky, quite right in fact. Im hiding behind my years of experience in attempt to defend myself...I shouldnt do that, thats immature of me and im sorry. Truth is I just wanted to feel powerful and useful, but I see know that I was wrong in my attempt to be something more than anybody else.

2014-04-06 [Flisky]: I hope that you aren't going to pull your character. She's quite interesting (and I have a weakness for ice manipulators...)

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: I'll be honest, I dont take criticism very well, and I tend to take things a lot more personal than I should. Its a problem I have had for a long time and its the entire reason I stopped RPing for the last 3 or so years. I thought I had overcome that problem and decided to try and get back into RPing again, hence the reason I came here since so far this is the most active and awesome RP Ive found. But after rereading my posts and really thinking about what Ive said and done, I have come to the realization that I still have that problem..

2014-04-06 [Figgy]: Keep working on it. You'll do fine.

2014-04-06 [Flisky]: I have the same problem. (Mine is due to being autistic and no lack of misunderstandings.) So I at least understand.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Well something tells me im going to have this problem for the rest of my life, lol. I dont really know or understand why I do it, all I know is that its been the cause of me losing quite a few friends, I can get quite stubbornly defensive over stupid crap..

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: I think everyone has moments like that. :P I myself can hold a grudge for longer than I can remember the purpose. ^^"

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Lol, well I am trying. I just dont know what else I can do with Vhnori other than completely nerf her. Im even toying with the idea of asking if she can just keep her current OP power just in the dorm room, but outside the dorm nerf her so she can only use her power near a large source of water or something. Or perhaps even give up the dorm room and build her "room" near the lake on the other side of the grounds since there is plenty of water out there, she could easily build herself an actual house. And still have enough water for icebergs, lol

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: So how should we alter the events in this room? :o

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Im thinking we decide that the room just isnt big enough and go build a large igloo near the lake, lol

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: XD That would be funny~ But I think Coral would only decide that if the room was too warm, not too small.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: True, but as Figgy....or Dur said,(Im not sure which one) the rooms have central heating, and it would take far too much energy from Vhnori to keep it constantly cold, so going somewhere nearby that is already naturally cold and has enough water to maintain the temperature would probably be a lot easier. Although im sure they would need permission first, lol. 

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: Probably. XD So how far do we backtrack?

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: First we see if its even viable to move to the lake, lol.

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: Figgy? Dur?

2014-04-06 [Duredhel]: If I may suggest a solution :O. If neither girl is concerned by cold, they can ask Danger to keep the room at a toasty 5C? And that way you also justify why the tank does not melt when Vhnori is not there.

Also, my problem is not so much the size of the tank, its just that she made something that big while ignoring the main limitation (availability) of a char who uses water, you know?

If she turned on the faucett in the bathroom and used that for the tank, it'd be fine :>

If you wanna move them to the lake house (there's one) that would also be fine by me, you'd still need figgs to do the go ahead tho. Its just easy to keep characters in the dorms for organizational purposes, but if she doesn't mind, neither do I.

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: I feel stupid that I didnt think about that, but I thought about it for filling the tank, lol. However I personally like the idea of living by the lake. Not only would that be good for both them cause Coral can use that water for her own needs, and Vhnori has a lot more water to utilize her power. But that also frees up the room for other students that may show up, I noticed the rooms are starting to get full so my idea might be a good one.

2014-04-06 [ancienteye]: Coral wouldn't mind living by the lake. XP

2014-04-06 [Duredhel]: Yah, its fine either way, run it by figgs tho, if she says it's cool then it's cool :>

2014-04-06 [Vhnori Valmos]: Kk, well I guess we will just have to wait till she gets back online, in the meantime I guess I'll go play Diablo 3, lol

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: Not sure about the lake, guys. Keep in mind, we're doing one more in-game day before we skip to the beginning of the summer. How do you think they'll be able to keep a home made of ice standing, or how they'll even survive, in 90F weather?

And the lake house, being a small building, will have window A/C units as opposed to central A/C, which will make it much harder to maintain a cold temp. I suggest just have them keep the thermostat for their room relatively low, and ask Danger to maintain the temperature.

2014-04-07 [Duredhel]: What we could do is have them live by the lake on cold seasons and then move back to the mansion when it gets hot out? XD

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: They would be living by the lake for Christmas Eve and that's it >_> They would miss Christmas.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Its not like the lake is a hundred miles away, lol. As for the summer thing, I can also make part of the house underwater at the bottem of the lake, and make it so there is a non ice tunnel that leads down to it, that way it has the pressure and cold to keep it stable and frozen. Then during the summer days the upper part of the building can be sent back to the lake and me and Coral can just live in the underwater part. Vhnori can swim so getting to and from it wont be a problem, and Coral...well she can breath underwater so there isnt a problem there. During the winter days I can build an upper part that resembles a cabin or something.

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: Uhh... that just sounds too complicated as opposed to them just living inside the dorm and keeping the temps down.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: I live for complicated, lol. I honestly dont see what the big deal is with Vhnori and Coral living at..or in the lake, it would ultimately be the best and safest place for them. Vhnori still isnt used to being around multiple people due to her only recently coming out of seclusion and from what I know of Coral she would be much happier having a giant lake surrounding her.

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: The lake is a public place, first of all. It's mansion property but also accessible to other people. Ice castle floating on top of the lake? Yeah, that doesn't scream fishy at all.

There's really no big deal. It just makes a lot more sense and it will be way easier for them to just live in the dorms, so that's how I'd really prefer it to be on paper. If they wanna go sleep in the lakehouse or next to the lake every night or something, that's fine too(not under the lake). But officially they will be listed as living in this dorm.

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: And, you know what? When winter comes back around, they can play eskimo all they want by the lake. But I'm telling you they can't do that now because it will be summer soon.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Ok fine, I guess we dont have a choice but to listen, lol. The dorms it is, I guess you do have a point about us being able to just ask Danger to keep the temperature really low. Does she have the ability to change humidity levels too?

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: Yeah, she can do pretty much anything. She can even build an aquarium for Coral, if she asks, though she'll have to find out first that Danger exists. Vhnori wouldn't know, either, since she is a very recent implementation to the mansion's mainframe system.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Ah I see, I was just about to ask exactly when Danger was made, lol. Also who exactly made/programed Danger?

2014-04-07 [Duredhel]: Vhnori might have been around when Danger was first activated tho :O, way before. We have the story going to where the professor turned her off a few years back because of all the.. uh.. glitches (she's modeled after a less homicidal GLaDOS).

She was turned back on as part of a contingency program Xavier set up in case something ever happened to him :O.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Ohh, so the big question is, was she active over 10 years ago? Cause its been 10 years since Vhnori left the mansion and traveled the world.

2014-04-07 [Duredhel]: Well, what we figured is she was originally the AI of the Danger Room (hence Danger). Vhnori, Tori and other returning mutants would know her as such.

Then Xavier upgraded her to a self-improving AI and hooked her up to the mansion and she tried to improve everything in horribly stupid ways so she was turned off. (Until Xavier disappeared and she came back on line to defend the mansion). In my head she's very sweet and cares about students (or as close to caring as a program can get) but is terribly misguided.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Ah I see, so my immediate assumption of Vhnori already knowing about Danger when I first joined this RP a few weeks ago was correct, lol. Also I should point out that Vhnori is extremely adept at anything computer related, and that includes AIs. That was kinda my way of implementing a personal thing form my own personal skills and whatnot into my character to make her more natural for me. So at some point she could easily alter Danger to have a more humane set of guidelines. 

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: I think we're just going to leave Danger as-is. She was mostly Dur's creation and he usually plays her, and he enjoys her odd sense of morals and personality.

2014-04-07 [Duredhel]: She's way more fun that way :>

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Ah, well I did say "could" assuming that it ever might come to that, lol. I just figured Id throw that out there for future reference in case the plot ever reaches a point where she absolutely must be reprogrammed or something.

2014-04-07 [Figgy]: Well, we're not planning on doing anything like that.

2014-04-07 [ancienteye]: So how far should we backtrack on this page? :o

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: Hm, well im thinking we might not have to backtrack at all, I can probably edit the part where im building the aquarium to where Vhnori uses the shower as well to make the frame and whatnot also.

2014-04-07 [Vhnori Valmos]: There we go, I edited it so that Vhnori used the shower to both make the frame and fill it, and I altered a few things so that it didnt look weird with the other posts that was made prior to her filling it, lol.

2014-04-15 [Duredhel]: Ancient, you seem to have an incomplete post up there :O

2014-04-15 [ancienteye]: Hm? I'll go fix it.

2014-04-15 [ancienteye]: I forgot about her hiccups...I need to add them earlier next time she goes swimming. >___>

2014-04-15 [ancienteye]: A distraction or change of subject would help. She doesn't have the best memory.

2014-04-16 [Vhnori Valmos]: Btw its probably going to be about another hour or two before I can reply again, my parents are forcing me to do the dishes against my will, lol

2014-04-16 [ancienteye]: XD Totally understood.

2015-01-01 [Kbird]: XD Amelia will takes some time getting used to the forest vibe.

2015-01-16 [Kalma]: Ez is excited to meet her new roomie! Right now she's floating through the halls trying to find someone who's not too scary and/or preoccupied seeming to interact with. :D

2015-03-13 [Kbird]: so sorry I've been really busy with family stuff. I will try to be on more.